If Adam & Eve listened to God about the fruit where would be?

Question: “What would’ve happened if Eve and Adam listened to God about the fruit?” – Uriah Moss

Pretext: The bible teaches that God foreordained that Jesus Christ would come to earth to die for sin from the foundation of the world. This is hard for people to understand but God ordained the Fall of Mankind – He knew the result of the test when he commanded Adam. He knew that they would fail and He intentionally put Adam and Eve in the garden with the tempter knowing exactly what would happen… does this make God unjust? No, because He purposed to use these results to effect His Glory.

My Answer…

Understand – If God knew that Adam & Eve wouldn’t have eaten the fruit God wouldn’t have even put the tree in the garden to begin with. God foreknew the result of that test and ordained the fall of mankind so as to bring Jesus Christ into the world as Savior. An eternity with Jesus Christ as Savior brings God more glory than eternity without Jesus Christ as Savior. So when you want to understand why God did it the way He did with the fall of man, that is why. The fall was part of God’s eternal plan. When God created man he gave him the capacity to sin and knew that he would do so… and He knew how He would remedy the situation.


The Curious Story of Lance Knight & King’s Chapel


Some of you may have heard of Lance Knight’s conversion experience and subsequent violent repudiation of Shepherd’s Chapel in April 2005. At the time, Lance had developed a rather large teaching ministry based around the core of Chapel teaching, thereby leaching many of Murray’s hard earned students.

Because of his betrayal his name will forever burn in infamy in the minds of some…

I had the pleasure of witnessing the whole thing unfold – I was more a disciple of Knight at the time than Murray. I talked to him by phone in November of 2004 and for a short time tithed to his ministry. I owned all of his teaching material.

In fact by the end of 2003 I was no longer interested really in hearing Murray teach at all. I found him to be boring, repetitive and unspecific. Knight was just the type of teacher I was looking for…

When the Lord saved me on February 14th 2003, I immediately gravitated back towards Chapel doctrine which I was immersed in before becoming and atheist. One of the first things I did was send for the Mark of the Beast package. I specifically remember the Lord warning me to stay away from it at the time but I was unable – I couldn’t conceive of the scripture in any other light than what I had learned from Murray.

I tithed over $800 to the Chapel that year, such was my commitment.

In the Summer of 2003 I began to study with Lance Knight of the King’s Chapel. I found his teaching style and content much more in line with what I wanted. Lance taught an almost identical doctrine to Murray with extra insights and zeal to go with it – he was younger and I identified with him. He was much more militant and combative against the NWO, and gave more details… always a bonus. He brought another level of excitement to Murray’s false doctrine.

For all intents and purposes I left the Chapel behind because of Lance in late 2003…

In 2004, I began to give to Presbyterian teacher R.C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries. I give R.C. a lot of credit for getting me out of this. His teaching series on the Holy Spirit, Election and Justification by Faith Alone shattered my confidence in the Chapel system completely… Sproul taught about the nature of the Godhead and the Holy Spirit and I began to realize Murray was teaching heresy.

It would take some time to bust loose but R.C. set in a motion an unraveling that would come to a head in late March 2005 when Lance had his epiphany.

By this time I was going through intense spiritual turmoil – I had already rejected Murray’s teaching while still being caught up in the more difficult errors. It was unraveling quick but I was still clinging to King’s Chapel to see what Knight had to say.

Lance would usually put out teaching material every week in those days – they were kind of like advanced Shepherd’s Chapel lectures. Lance always considered himself and his followers to be the elite of the elite in the Chapel scheme. I waited diligently to get these messages.

All of the sudden, Lance stopped posting. Then Lance pulled all the content down from his site and began to stream audio sermon’s every week beginning early April 2005.

The messages were very bizarre – Lance went on and on about his religious experience and he was accusing Murray of being the “man of sin” and referring to himself indirectly as Michael the Archangel. I knew something wasn’t right, but he was exposing a lot of the teachings from the Chapel that I was being freed from so I knew there was something to it. I wanted to hear more of what he was getting free from.

These were very instructive times. Lance for his part destroyed all of his old teaching material and instructed his followers to do likewise and depend solely on scripture…

I took him up on this – in April 2005, I not only threw away tons of Knight’s and Murray’s teaching material but also all the other study material I had accumulated. I even tossed my Companion Bible in the dumpster.

The teaching of Knight became so bizarre and unbiblical that I separated myself from Knight. I WAS FREE! The Lord Jesus Christ set me free from man’s religion completely back in April 2005. I give Knight some credit even though I’m wholeheartedly against his current teaching which is a variation of the Latter-Rain/Manifest Sons of God heresy.

When he broke at the time, the dye was cast, the war against falsehood began.

Were the Elect Justified in the World that Was?

the Chapel is a christian identity cult
the Elect justified during the first earth age?

(Rom 8:29) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
(Rom 8:30) Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Shepherd’s Chapel betrays itself by how it interprets this scripture on the doctrine of election…

One of the hallmarks of false teachers is their insistence that salvation is the result of man’s righteousness or his good works. It is no different with Shepherd’s Chapel. They actually take this heresy to new heights. Let’s look at this verse from Ephesians:

(Eph 1:4) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

According to the Chapel, “foundation” means “overthrow” and not an actual “founding” – God chose the elect before the Katabole, or the destruction of the first earth age. Which age was destroyed because of the “rebellion”. Forget the fact that Paul is actually talking to the elect of the Ephesian church…

Murray teaches that the “elect” are a small group of loyal believers who fought alongside God in the first earth age at the rebellion of Satan. As a result God “justified” and “glorified” them and they thereby earned the right to be “the elect”. He stresses that “justified” and “glorified” are in the past tense to prove his point.

The famous verse, “many are called but few are chosen…” now begins to take on new meaning…

You see, there are 7000 “very elect” who form the order of Zadok and 144000 regular “elect” from the 12 tribes of Israel. But does the bible really teach this?

As with so many other scriptures Murray completely butchers the doctrine of election. According to Murray, the vast majority of saints who are redeemed ARE NOT ELECT AT ALL! But where does the bible teach anyone who has been justified that is not elect? IT DOESN’T!

First off, there is only one people of God, “one elect”, the CHURCH and they are elect according to God’s grace, not as a result of their efforts in the first earth age.

There is no “very elect” Zadok priesthood. Here’s one of the passages he uses to support this insane fantasy…

(Mat 24:24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

I think someone is “very” mentally challenged if they can wrest this scripture to support two groups of elect, the regular and an elite group. “Very” isn’t used in this sense at all in this text! Doesn’t matter to Murray though, he just keeps on plowing…

The Greek word for “very” is the conjunction “KAI”. Look at the way Jesus uses KAI in this passage…

(Mat 10:30) But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

Jesus does not have in mind some separate group of “elite” hairs growing on top of your head… or maybe he does? It is the same sense that Matthew 24:24 uses “very”. But Murray needs “very” to refer to some elite group of 7000. They are VERY ELECT, not just elect.

Now we can begin to better understand WHY Murray took such an interest in original languages – not to get at the truth but to better wrest the text to mean what he needs in order to fashion his own religion.

Here’s what you need to know, and this blog is designed help you get free from this cult and begin to put your trust in Jesus Christ and not some man and his fantastical system of falsehood…

1.) There was no first earth age that God destroyed as a result of Satan’s rebellion. The “elect” of Murray were not “justified” in the first earth age as a result of their righteous performance. If you believe that I have a good feeling you may be on the way to perdition.

2.) The “elect” are one people of God from the beginning of time to our present day. There are a vast multitude of them. In the new testament they are called the church. They are elect according to God’s grace through faith in Christ, not of works.

I hope if you are caught up in this that God will grant you repentance and understanding of the truth – if you know someone that is snared by this teaching please direct them to this blog…