Eth Ha Adam – the Two Adams Teaching Debunked!

there is no 8th day creation...

The Chapel teaches that there were two distinct creations of man. The 6th day creation, or the “ethnos” and the 8th day “Adam” of who Christ and the Hebrews were to come…

One thing we really need to grasp is that this interpretation of the bible IS inherently racist. It came from racist origins and leads to racist conclusions. Not coincidentally, this notion of a 6th and 8th day creation can be found in the Kabbalah and in the writings of Helena Blavatsky, famed theosophist…

 

 

We will find other curious similarities between Babylonian Kabalistic mystery religion and what the Chapel teaches but that is a different discussion for a different day…

Teachings like the one we’re going to address are a significant contributor to the Christian Identity movement. Christian Identity falls under the umbrella of Christian Dominionism. It is beast religion and satanic to the bone.

Murray’s “Eth Ha Adam” teaching is a perfect example of how theology is used to support a political end – and this is merely one example. Murray habitually distorts the scripture in a way that is elitist and bigoted. That is why certain hateful types gravitate towards Murray like moths to a flame.

We’ll find this particular doctrine expounded in his Genesis series. There’s so many lies in that one set of tapes – it baffles the mind. According to this position God created mankind in general on the 6th day, the indigenous races. Then on the 8th day God created Adam, where fairer skinned folk come in. This is British Israelism 101.

Pandora’s Box opens up from here… how did the races survive the flood? Was the flood global or local? These are themes that Murray addresses over and over. Secretly Murray taught a local flood but to risk alienating people he also taught that Noah took the different races on the ark.

God says take two of each flesh, he reasons that the Kenites and other races were included in this commandment.

But what does the bible teach? Does it teach that the races were created on the 6th day and that on the 8th day God created the fairer skinned people?

How did Paul the Apostle understand this issue? Did he believe in two separate creations of man like Murray teaches?

“And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;” – Acts 17:26

The answer is no. He believed that all men descended from Adam and Eve.

“And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.” – Genesis 3:20

So who are you going to believe? Murray twisted and distorted the whole of scripture to fit his man-made system of religion. If you are one his student’s and you claim to have a love of the truth then it’s time for you to begin to radically question and reject almost everything this man has taught… your soul depends on it.

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66 thoughts on “Eth Ha Adam – the Two Adams Teaching Debunked!

  1. Wow, you don’t listen well do you. But it’s fine, it is known in the end the scoffers would abound. God led me to Pastor Murray and I love him. You should watch a while, then cast your judgment.

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    • Hi fried, the bible condemns false doctrine — the bible commands us to speak out against… you have a problem with that? I’ve studied with the chapel since February 1994. I know his teaching inside and out – the Lord Jesus Christ delivered me from his idolatry years ago. If you’re propagating Murray’s lies you are taking God’s name in vain.

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  2. […] * 6th day & 8th day man in Genesis are not the same, Eth ha adam – this insane doctrine is a favorite of Christian identity bigots who latch onto any lie they can to make themselves feel superior. It teaches that the swarthy masses of indigenous people were made on the 6th day… on the 8th day God created Adam to rule over the heathen. Yet, the bible says Eve is the mother of all living and the nations came from one blood. How did the races survive the flood? […]

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  3. Ok so if all life came from eve, then who was Kain afraid of when he was cast out of the land were his father and mother were? And who did he marry? If kain and Abel were the first two kids who was he talking about? I’m you go back and read it God created man and women on the sixth day! And he rested on the 7th and created Adam after that.

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    • Sorry Matt. You drank the Kool-Aid. The bible says Eve is the mother of all living. How are you going to bend and twist that to say something else. Paul says all the nations were made of one blood…

      Act 17:26 – And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

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      • I didn’t call you swine.. Just seen all the responds didn’t know this discussion was still ongoing. That was someone else responding

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      • No problem.. So do you attend a church? What’s your thoughts on attending one, and who’s got it right? Because I’ve been to plenty but never really left one feeling fulfilled, or learned anything.

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      • I do attend church from time to time and I have similar experiences. Corporate worship and fellowship are important for the christian spiritually but I do still have much difficulty. I attend a small local Baptist church and a non-denominational megachurch here where I live. Both are dispensational premillennial which I thoroughly reject. The best church I can recommend would be is a Presbyterian PCA, and not a PCUSA. I don’t attend a PCA church because I don’t live near one.

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  4. You didn’t respond to the scripture I gave you! My only answer is the answer given by the scripture I quoted. If you believe the bible then there is only ONE possibility for who it was – Seth’s descendants. Or even Abel if he had children… Abel may have even had daughters. Or the descendants of other sons and daughters that Adam and Eve had. We’re not given a time frame for when Cain slew Abel. We are not told of Adam and Eve’s other children. The fact is the bible tells us very little. But we are told Eve is the mother of all living and the inconvenient passage from Acts reiterates it. Paul obviously believed Eve was the mother of all living. You have a problem with what the bible says.

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    • Not a problem with what the bible says just the way your trying to explain it. Just hard to believe all the races came from two people. Please explain.

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      • First of all, the so called “races” don’t exist. All the different types of people you see today are the descendants of Noah and his sons. The term “race” implies a distinction that in reality doesn’t exist. But racists love the term “race” because they want justify the position that they are inherently better than other groups of different looking people in some way. There is no race. Humanity are the descendants of Noah and his sons. WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY? I gave you two, clear, concrete, straightforward passages.

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      • It wouldn’t matter to me if He was black yellow brown. As far as the passage you gave, it does make you scratch your head. So if I was a Jew or a black or any other color and said we are the chosen people it wouldn’t be racist?Only if you say whites are it becomes racist. We are living in the melting pot now, who’s a pure race anymore? Does it matter? Never seen we’re he talked down about other races. Hard to say that when people of all color go to his church and listen to him.

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      • No, see, that is what Murray teaches – that the races were hunters and fishers and that “Adam” was an agriculturalist. Chapter 2 reiterates and gives more detail about chapter one – it’s not telling us about different groups of humanity. Man, Adam and Eve, were created on the 6th day. Murray has deceived you.

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  5. What is race? The word implies that there is some important distinction between people. But all the people you see today came from Noah’s family. If your brother had a family that looked different from your family, would you call them a different race? Truth is people’s that lived nearer to the equator became darker over time. People that lived further north became whiter. It’s called adaptation. There are no races involved. The term “race” implies a distinction between people that doesn’t exist.

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    • And Paul talks about not getting in hateful debates with people about scripture, so have a good time trying to make a name for yourself off somebody else’s work. Ask yourself this, what if your the one wrong and your the one miss leading people?

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    • You’re crazy. This is laughable. There are many different complexions. What gave the Indian their reddish color? Wallowing in clay?

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      • how do you suggest the different complexions came about, through different creations of man? Differing complexions for the most part adaptive. People living nearer to the equator are darker. People living nearer to the poles are lighter… over time these adaptations become more solidified in the genetic makeup of a people.

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  6. Maybe you don’t understand. The only thing I hate is false religion. I have been in a cult. Nothing is more bitter than coming out of one. Murray has misled a lot of people and my purpose in this blog is to expose what he is teaching. I am doing what the bible instructs me to do. I know what Jesus Christ has brought me out of – I’m not concerned in the least about reproving Murray’s false doctrine because it is was God himself has called me to do. Making a name off Murray? You think I’m making a name? No one even knows who I am sir. I am a pariah to the Murray followers, that’s about the only name I have.

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  7. I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THIS WEBSITE. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK AND MAY GOD BLESS YOU FOR EXPOSING THIS FALSE TEACHING. I HAVE A NEIGHBOR WHO GETS VERY VEHEMENT WHEN I TELL HER I DON’T WANT TO LISTEN. SHE TALKS ABOUT ARNOLD MURRAY AND THEN SHE TELLS ME THAT I DON’T WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH. THEN I SAY TO HER THAT SHE IS JUDGING ME SHE GETS VERY MAD. THANK YOU FOR YOUR MINISTRY.

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      • I WOULD TRY TO WATCH ARNOLD MURRAY A FEW TIMES JUST TO SEE WHAT HE TAUGHT BUT WHEN I WATCHED HIM (I THINK IT MAY HAVE BEEN AROUND 2006) HE WAS READING A VERSE ABOUT SIN IN ROMANS AND HE SAID, “OH FORGIVE ME FATHER FOR I HAVE SINNED…” AND THEN HE LAUGHED ABOUT IT.

        THAT WAS ENOUGH FOR ME. FOR HIM TO JOKE ABOUT SIN WHEN JESUS DIED FOR OUR SINS – AND THAT IS THE GOSPEL…

        NOT THE KENITES AND ALL THE OTHER STUFF HE HAS MADE UP ABOUT BEING BORN FROM ABOVE AND THAT WE WERE WITH HIM IN ANOTHER EARTH AGE… THAT IS A WORKS GOSPEL. HOW COULD PEOPLE BELIEVE HIS TEACHINGS. JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS FOR OUR SINS AND THIS IS THE GOSPEL. FROM MURRAY I NEVER EVER HEARD HIM SAY ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT JESUS DID FOR US. THANK YOU TIMOTHY.

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    • I just observed this link today. I am an educated spiritual black woman recently transformed. I am very confused about the arguments in this blog. Shepherd’s chapel confuses me too sometimes. This is the first that I hear that they are teaching a different doctrine than the king James version of the Word?

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      • They teach that you, Sheryll, a black woman, are not a descendant of Eve but of the 6th day creation. Study with the Chapel long enough and the bigotry will become evident. The bible teaches that ALL are descendant of Eve, the mother of ALL living.

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  8. Great – I’m not denying any of that except maybe what you’re getting at which you never come right out and state it. Adam and “the” Adam happen to refer to exactly the same thing.

    Chapter two gives specific information of what is stated in general in Genesis 1:26. Kind of how Genesis 1:1 says in the beginning God created the Heavens and the earth, then proceeds to give us details of that creation. (Bullinger and Murray do insert a gap between 1:1 and 1:2 – it takes their whole system of religion off into a land of delusion. Murray likes the technique of overlooking the summation statements so much that he uses it again later in the chapter.)

    It is a recapitulation or summation of what is to follow and not a whole separate account of another creation of humanity. This is what the Chapel teaches. Bullinger does not.

    Murray uses the presence of the article to support his teaching of two separate creations of humanity, one the swarthy gentiles of the 6th day not fit for agriculture work (i.e. not smart enough), the other the delightsome progenitors of the elect race of whom Murray is chiefest.

    But you denied this was your position earlier – so what’s it gonna be? Is Chapter 2 a further elaboration of what was already stated or a whole separate creation account?

    I need to remind you and the readers of the passage from the apostle that I quoted earlier about his understanding of all of this…

    And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;” – Acts 17:26

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  9. Also, look at what Bullinger says in his notes about this…

    Bullinger on eth ha adam

    Bullinger asserts that eth ha adam, or adam with the article and the particle refers to adam. Coincidentally adam with article and particle is present in 1:27 referring to mankind and 2:7 referring to adam. Murray is trying to use minutia in the text to insert separate creation accounts.

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  10. I’m simply demonstrating that E.W. Bullinger himself was not in agreement with your position. I am free to do such. I am also free to clarify the argument that Murray is using concerning the Hebrew words. I consider Bullinger to be correct and I will give him credit for such…

    I don’t consider you bigoted – but many racist types within the Christian Identity love this teaching… and perhaps you can see why…

    I consider the two adams position a bigoted premise because it teaches a division in humanity that does not exist. I leads to other bigoted conclusions about the whole of scripture. I have seen it work itself out many times with people I have met caught up in these teachings.

    Kind of like a spiritual/racial classism. Add to that – the two adams position is a staple within occult theosophy and the kabbalah (see picture above).

    The position in my estimation is satanic to the core. Am I calling you such? No, I simply believe you have been misled.

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  11. I used an example from Bullinger’s notes to demonstrate to you that Bullinger did not teach this. When the subject of “two adams” first came up you denied that you knew what it was. You also asserted that Bullinger and Murray were in agreement on Genesis 1:26 which I disputed. I will reproduce those comments if you would like me to.

    I used an example from the notes to demonstrate that Bullinger is not in agreement with you. I happen to agree with Bullinger – he believed that ALL humanity descended from Adam and Eve. I acknowledge that he is correct.

    I am free to use his notes and do so with a good conscience. I see no problem with it, sorry.

    And for the record – I don’t necessarily despise Bullinger and don’t consider that he led me astray, it was Murray. And I don’t really despise him, I despise his teaching.

    The blog’s main concern in regard to E.W. Bullinger is his influence on Murray’s system.

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    • I acknowledge what you perceive. When the idea of two Adams arose I was under the impression that you meant 2 literal Adams. I did not know you were referring to men apart from Adam. I honestly acknowledge that I do not know all the coined phrases that denote a specific theory, perception or teaching. To this I am ignorant. But I do not willfully try and mislead.

      I attempt, even unto a fault, to guard my words and employ them meaningfully, both deliberately and accurately so as to be considerate of others while providing insight. As I have stated, regardless of academic accomplishments, I will first and foremost always be a student. As such I take nothing for granted and willing accept the fruit of others but assuredly will test them all the same. I have learned long ago that God will use whomever he wishes, even those that teach false doctrine. No one person possess the divine wisdom to ascertain the scriptures in their entirety. As such I play often and place my faith on Him.

      I surmise I would grant you more respect in your endeavors, if I seen you replicate the same respect unto others. Upon entry of this site I seen nothing but anger, ridicule and a general lack of compassion. All the true signs that a Christian was not present. Be it as it may, I stayed to see what knowledge could be shared.
      (Yes, Proverbs 27; iron upon iron)

      As I stated before, Pastor Bullinger expended a large portion of his life to aiding others. Subsequently, his works include the Companion Bible even if not all his views are in agreement. I can find fault in any man, you and me included. However, so few are really like the Christ but many claim and render His name as if they are His followers.

      Be at peace. I will continue upon other issues shortly. Prior obligations require my extended time away.

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  12. And the thing you also don’t understand E. is that during the time that Jesus Christ was delivering me from all of this nonsense I did extensive research into the Greek and Hebrew arguments that Murray was using. I got to also see firsthand how he distorted the text to come up with his fantastical system of religion. If you ever begin to see it you will be dumbfounded.

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  13. I never write in on blogs , but will this time,
    Pastor Murray might not have been right on a lot of things, that was his interpretation only…he was on a quest for answers as we all are, but he has lead me into different realms of thought…and this is one of them….his interpretations were not gospel, maybe he did take a few liberties on teaching these items as fact…but to throw out the baby with the bath water is to at least not understand where some of his ideas lead…

    I believe in this instance he is correct, there were 2 different types of adam…mankind and then the specific person named adam…

    your writing seems to hinge on “the mother of all living” to me this interpretation indicates living through Christ, not just living, because if we dont live through Christ we are not living…

    I believe God Created Adam to create a lineage to bring Christ to the world….everything seems to point to that….which to me would indicate why the bad guy would attack eve in the garden…why eve and no one else…God created all, everything ! the earth, Christ, us, even the bad dude….everything!

    it is not separatist, it is inclusive…no “race” is better than any else…if Christianity teaches us anything, it teaches that, pride is not ours, it has no use to us, because God creates all….

    the bible is a record , the record of Christ , the word, from start to finish it is all about Christ….
    now after stating that, we can delve into what I have been studying…

    God had to create Adam to bring Christ to the world, because he wanted to walk with us to see our joy,pain, suffering, and everything it takes to be human on this planet…that is what I have surmised so far, right or wrong, its the way i think….
    to do this he probably had to create certain genetic markers in mankind to make this happen, he did this in the garden…and things were going pretty good until someones PRIDE got in the way…you know who..

    now lets get onto specifics…

    .Adam was of “ruddy” complexion this is accurate in the translations, and you know this as well, I still have not found when the “Caucasian” gene was isolated but a lot of scholars seem to indicate it is not that old of a race….genetic markers what they are seem to indicate that even the Europeans were of a tanned nature….most of my study tends to lead me to turkey around 8 to 10, 000 years ago, not to far from when it is said that Adam was created ….

    Adam was a tiller of earth,…this is a very strong indicator of the start of cultivation….well guess what, you need a crop for cultivation …..and it so happens that wheat was first introduced in turkey at mount Karaca…around 8 to 10,000 years ago….

    leading to the next point, Eden and the garden….most of my studies lead me to somewhere in once again Turkey….I am only mentioning the name because it is a descriptor of a geographical region that we can all understand,….

    next point, the temple of Pergamum once again, Turkey….the seat of you know who,

    all of these things seem to indicate that something happened PHYSICALLY in times past….which to me seems to indicate that what is in the bible is not far from the truth ….

    none of the races are inferior.. we are all of one blood….but I do think that God Created Adam to bring Christ to this earth….but someone didnt want this to happen….during the old times, someone was messing up what God created, in more ways than one….a lot of weird creatures were born of women, and a lot of things that god had intended as holy were taken for granted , I.E. sexuality and marriage…..
    this is why the flood happened, to what extent it wiped out is still a mystery, but there is record of it happening in the black sea….go figure back to that same region….to me it was to get rid of what the other had created , not to wipe out all the races….

    There is a lot more I can add, but I have no need to create a book here, look into the book of enoch, the apocolypse of moses and the cave of treasures……..there are many more things to study, not all of it is canonical…remember the bible as we know it was only created a little over a thousand years ago….in Constantinople….many other cultures have things to add to this ….the aim here is to get to the truth …and not let PRIDE get in our way…..and follow Gods love for us all ….that is free will in the finest!

    redemption not religion, it is the only way.

    Ill leave here with something that rids me of Pride every time, a passage from JOB 38

    “Brace yourself like a man, I will question you, and you will answer me…

    Where were you when I laid the earths foundation, tell me if you understand”

    one of the most powerful statements in the Bible to me….

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    • Quote: “your writing seems to hinge on “the mother of all living” to me this interpretation indicates living through Christ, not just living, because if we dont live through Christ we are not living…”

      “BECAUSE IF WE DON’T LIVE THROUGH CHRIST WE ARE NOT LIVING”
      When I read that statement, especially, I couldn’t help to think about the teaching of annihilation.

      There are many people walking around today that exhibits signs of life like heartbeat, movement, breathing of lungs, etc. These same people are not really living. They are dead inside. Without Christ there will always be a void inside. People are like zombies without Christ. People are dead without Christ not only in this life, but in the life to come.

      Hell is an existence, just not much of a “life”, more like a continual and permanent death. Hell is not an annihilation or cessation of existence, it is a conscious eternal torment.

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      • hi anon,

        when Christ is not in your life you desire things to fill that void….desire for things other than God are what breed sin…..in my own walk, the more I read and discover the more my desire turns to God….and the less I want from this world….and trust me , I am a sinner….but that is where Christ came along and saved me….
        when you actually live some of the parables…and when its over the first thing that pops into your mind is that parable…you tend to think that this isnt Gods first rodeo…

        love and hate are both related, they are emotions, we all have emotions…I see many emotions here..but indifference is the absence of love…and hate…Gods indifference to us would be a lack of love…to me that is what hell is….even though he loves us all, he has to turn his back when we dont even recognize him…not by his choice , but by our own….and in the cases of peoples that believe in another god…well, i can see why he would be angry

        this is where I coin the term “living through Christ”……Christ is our teacher….through him we learn to love God and keep his commandments…

        in Pastor Murrays defense , I went to a lot of churches in the begining of my walk….I settled on the one that taught chapter by chapter and word by word….what a great way to learn about what has been given us..

        peace be with you…

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    • Gen. 25:25 And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.

      If we examine a Hebrew/Greek lexicon the definition is thus:

      132. admoniy, ad-mo-nee´; or (fully) admowniy, ad-mo-nee´; from 119; reddish (of the hair or the complexion):—red, ruddy.

      The definition of the word “red” described here is “admoniy” reddish of the hair or complexion. But it has its root meaning at 119

      119. adam, aw-dam´; to show blood (in the face), i.e. flush or turn rosy:—be (dyed, made) red (ruddy).

      So now RED is used to physically describe Esau/Edom which derives from the word “adam” which means “to show blood”. However we do know that adam was created from earth making him a dark/brown complexion.

      Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

      The hebrew word for “ground” here is:

      127. adamah, ad-aw-maw´; from 119; soil (from its general redness):—country, earth, ground, husband(-man) (-ry), land.

      Which also derives from Strong’s definition 119 meaning “red”. But we must ask ourselves, “Why is Adam who is made of the “brownish” earth called “RED”. Is it his physical description? Not at all! Do not all people on the earth today come from Adam? Are all people brown? NO! so we must learn that the name “adam” (Strongs 119) also has a root (this is what many overlook!)

      1818. dam, dawm; from 1826 (compare 119); blood (as that which when shed causes death) of man or an animal; by analogy, the juice of the grape; figuratively (especially in the plural) bloodshed (i.e. drops of blood):—blood(-y, -guiltiness, (-thirsty), + innocent.

      “DAM” is the hebrew word for BLOOD and we all know what color blood is. All the words that describe the word “RED” has a form of the word “DAM”(=Blood) in it describing the origin of its redness (being blood)

      Red- admoniy, awdam, adam, even Edom!!

      123. Edom, ed-ome´; or (fully) Edowm, ed-ome´; from 122; red (see Gen. 25:25); Edom, the elder twin-brother of Jacob; hence the region (Idumaea) occupied by him:—Edom, Edomites, Idumea.

      122. adom, aw-dome´; from 119; rosy:—red, ruddy.

      So why is Adam described as “red”? He’s not! He is described as looking like the earth or ground however seeing we all come from Adam we are descendants of his “blood (DAM)” lineage. All men alive carry the “blood” or life source of man called “DAM” hence all men were named Adam at one point.

      Gen. 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

      120. adam, aw-dawm´; from 119; ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.):—x another, + hypocrite, + common sort, x low, man (mean, of low degree), person.

      This definition of “adam” has its origin still at 119 but defines itself as “the human race” seeing we all carry the DAM or BLOOD of the first man. Examine

      Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood (from Adam) all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

      So all men and women have their origin with ONE BLOOD beginning with ADAM. Hence the suffix DAM in his name. So as some falsely teach, “If Adam was created of earth and physically described as the complexion of the rich soil, then how can Edom/Esau who is described as RED just like ADAM be the RED (caucasian) race? Easy? Remember Adam’s name comes from the blood/DAM (which is without doubt red) he possesses and not his outer physical attributes. Edom on the other hand was described as being RED “outwardly”.

      Gen. 25:25 And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.

      Esau is Edom and is described RED unlike Jacob who also came out of the same WOMB. Why does RED trace back to adam in the lexicons? lets see…

      132. admoniy, ad-mo-nee´; or (fully) admowniy, ad-mo-nee´; from 119; reddish (of the hair or the complexion):—red, ruddy.

      Now according to Genesis 5:2, wasn’t every male and female called ADAM? Yes! So wouldn’t Esau have already been RED? along with Jacob, Isaac, and every descendant of Adam? Yes! So why is there a need to describe Edom/’Esau as red in Genesis 25:25? Because this man was now “outwardly” Red!! whereas everyone else was RED/adam/dam internally seeing our blood is within us. But Edom’s BLOOD,adam,DAM penetrates through his skin thus making him outwardly RED.

      This definition hurts their whole doctrine whereas they try to say the red used to describe Esau/Edom is of a reddish brown color. Oh Really? Examine
      2Kings 3:22 And they rose up early in the morning, and the sun shone upon the water, and the Moabites saw the water on the other side as red as blood:

      the definition of RED and BLOOD used here is as follows…
      122. adom, aw-dome´; from 119; rosy:—red, ruddy.
      1818. dam, dawm; from 1826 (compare 119); blood (as that which when shed causes death) of man or an animal; by analogy, the juice of the grape; figuratively (especially in the plural) bloodshed (i.e. drops of blood):—blood(-y, -guiltiness, (-thirsty), + innocent.

      So now red used here clearly describes RED as a visual color and again has its origin at 119 and is used synonymously with BLOOD or DAM.

      Lets get to David.

      1Sam. 16:12 And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the LORD said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he.

      132. admoniy, ad-mo-nee´; or (fully) admowniy, ad-mo-nee´; from 119; reddish (of the hair or the complexion):—red, ruddy.

      This is the stumbling block. “Ruddy” described here is “admoniy” the same word to describe the RED color of Esau. Does this mean David looked like an Edomite red all over? It is known that the Israelites as well as the people of Judah were those of color. Now ask yourself, “why didn’t the translators use the word RED instead of RUDDY seeing they have the same meaning? Well lets ask them! The English translations of the Bible were written in the Old English. So lets examine the word “Ruddy” in an Old English Dictionary.

      Ruddy – Reddish, sun-tanned healthy and glowing appearance; a tanned and brilliant glow demonstrating vibrance in the skin.

      Modern Definition
      ruddy |ˈrədē|adjective ( -dier , -diest )1 (of a person’s face) having a healthy red color : a cheerful pipe-smoking man of ruddy complexion.

      Understanding this foundation is crucial to understanding Edom/Esau. David was described as ruddy and not red. and Edom was described as RED and not ruddy. Although they share the same hebrew meaning we must examine the context. Knowing the foundation of these meanings helps us to know both definitions are related to BLOOD activity in the skin. Esau/Edom is described as RED ALL OVER showing that blood is clearly seen through his flesh. David is described as “RUDDY and of a beautiful countenance” which corresponding with the old and modern definitions of “brilliant” and “healthy” skin complexion. When one is RUDDY, their blood cells are so vibrant they possess a glow about them as young negro/indian men and women do. Caucasians have always lacked this glow and for this reason the product called “BLUSH” was created as a form of makeup that allowed Caucasian women to artificially obtain that healthy “reddish” tone to no avail. What happens when a negro is said to “Blush”? Their face turns a reddish color from embarrassment… although their natural physical color does not change. Lets look at the context of how the scriptures use RUDDY.

      1Sam. 16:12 And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the LORD said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he.
      1Sam. 17:42 And when the Philistine looked about, and saw David, he disdained him: for he was but a youth, and ruddy, and of a fair countenance.
      Song 5:10 My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand.
      Lam. 4:7 Her Nazarites were purer than snow, they were whiter than milk, they were more ruddy in body than rubies, their polishing was of sapphire:

      Notice in each instance ruddy is used as a positive description and in association with beauty. This is why Goliath laughed at David when he saw him because David was youthful and handsome and did not have that hard, blemished and weary look that most men of war had.

      1Sam. 17:42 And when the Philistine looked about, and saw David, he disdained him: for he was but a youth, and ruddy, and of a fair countenance.

      Edom was known as a fierce warrior so clearly RED had nothing to do with Goliath mocking David.

      Historical proof

      1Mac. 1:1 And it happened, after that Alexander son of Philip, the Macedonian, who came out of the land of Chettiim, had smitten Darius king of the Persians and Medes, that he reigned in his stead, the first over Greece,

      When Alexander (a caucasian or white race) conquered the original inhabitants of Greece (originally Javan) He began to be the first Edomite ruler thus naming the land Greece. How do we know he was an Edomite?

      1Mac. 4:61 And they set there a garrison to keep it, and fortified Bethsura to preserve it; that the people might have a defence against Idumea (Greek name for EDOM).

      After alexander died, his descendants and fellow Greeks tortured and slaughtered the Israelites. For this reason the Israelites built a fortress to protect them from the Idumeans or Edomites who then called themselves Greeks/Greece. The Greeks later became the Romans who without doubt are so-called caucasians (Edomites).

      123. Edom, ed-ome´; or (fully) Edowm, ed-ome´; from 122; red (see Gen. 25:25); Edom, the elder twin-brother of Jacob; hence the region (Idumaea) occupied by him:—Edom, Edomites, Idumea.

      This man is RUDDY

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      • Connor interprets that Adam was black. Mark interprets Adam was white.

        Mark said that Murray lead him to different realms of thought as if this was a good thing. Seems to me that realms of though included race. Be careful not to get caught up in this.

        2 Corinthians 11:3 – But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

        Your minds are being drawn away from the true prize, from the real truth.

        John 14:6 –
        Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

        Mark and Connor both use the word truth. Jesus is the truth. Anything that takes focus off of who Christ is (and his race did not define him) is a stumbling block.

        Mark seems to be wise in his own eyes in that he could write a book on topics, but he will openly admit he has many more questions than answers.

        1 Corinthians 14:33 – 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

        The devil is the author of confusion. He leads to more questions than answers. Murray’s heresy leads to great confusion and loss of what should really be our focus.

        Timothy Campbell, do not be weary in well doing. Keep on keeping on brother. I know it can be wearyness of the flesh when people get hung up on things not edifying. I believe that your doing your part to open up people’s eyes to many false teachings.

        Peace.

        Like

      • Hi Connor!

        Great rebuttal….very well thought out and a lot of stuff to read into….most of the debate seems to stem on esau….I did some reading and there is a lot to point it in the direction that you have outlined….i am not convinced though…as we still have a time line through lineage….and its not that long…there are some pages I found to refute the translation of hair and red as they are both very close in the hebrew translations…..but I can see where you can get your theory on the race of adam…

        there are also red soils….adama…

        ceray7

        Pride is not a good thing, never once did I call myself wise….I just said I have knowledge….to very different terms….I really dont like labeling….it creates division not unity….a house divided cannot stand…

        Satan can also quote scripture better than yourself…..I am not better than you , but the reverse is also true…..we are both Gods children….He is the father and he warns us against pride and vanity …iron against iron brother….

        Correction is always welcome, as it leads to strengthening of Christs love….labeling is not showing me the error of my ways….that comes from pride alone ….. he who is without sin, cast the first stone…

        Connor never once labeled…nor have I labeled Connor….we are both trying to correct each other….in our interpretations…and both seem very well thought out……

        scripture also states that satan is the accuser, isnt that also labeling?

        if this is how you treat your christian brothers here..that includes Murray
        ..then is is time for my exit…

        peace to you on your journeys

        Like

      • Mark,

        What “label” did I label you with? I never called you ignorant as Arnold Murray has called others. I have never assumed to think of myself as better than you, nor will I.

        You defend Arnold Murray, but he gave more labels than I could ever think of.

        Scripture is a good thing. If scripture labels Satan as an accuser, then let scripture stand.

        I realize that Satan knows scripture, but you need to remember that Christ also knew scripture better than Satan.

        James 2:19
        Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

        The important thing is having a relationship with God. NOT SKIN COLOR brother. I am not interested in reading a book about skin color that you or anyone else can write.

        You said:
        “JOB 38
        “Brace yourself like a man, I will question you, and you will answer me…
        Where were you when I laid the earths foundation, tell me if you understand”
        one of the most powerful statements in the Bible to me….

        When God challenged Job, Job’s reply was:
        Job 40: 3-5
        3 Then Job answered the Lord, and said,
        4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
        5 Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.

        No one has knowledge nor wisdom compared to God. God wants people’s hearts to open to him. Shouldn’t we be devoting more time into the character, nature, and will of God instead of a lengthy discussion of race.

        Please tell me how Adam’s skin color is edifying to God in any way. PLEASE educate me on the importance of Adam’s skin color. If it doesn’t edify God why devote so much time into it?

        Please don’t go. I just wanted to adjust the focus of conversation onto the inside heart of Adam rather than the outside.

        Remember this scripture:
        Matthew 23:26
        Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

        These were the words of Christ.

        Like

  14. Hi Tim,
    Great question!

    Specifically , I dont agree with the serpent seed doctrine,,,I believe cains wickedness came on him after he was born….God kept giving him chances, he Chose to slay Abel, not like it was predetermined for him to do so….
    for a long time I have tried to discern if the 2 trees in the garden were Christ and Satan, and I still can not figure it out….when Adam was sick and dying, Seth and Eve went back to eden to get some of the OIL of the flower of the tree of life….Im still trying to figure out what that meant….it might have been a real tree in that regard…Gilgamesh was looking for the same thing…the tree of the knowledge of good and evil , .eve did say that the serpent sprinkled wickedness on the fruit before she ate it, im still trying to figure that one out….

    The kinnites (sp) God has not wanted other races to be around, look up Amalekites….smote them to every last cattle ….thats a big statement that Saul didn’t follow through on….were they so removed from gods love that he wanted them gone? completely? ….Baal worship isnt a good thing, lol….

    There is a city in Lebanon call Baalbek (sp) tradition has it that it was built by cains son…is that the land of nod? look at the structures there, we still can not build them today…1200 ton stones, like wow!, there is no crane that we have that will lift it, I have been looking for an engineering perspective to move such large stones..but I have found nothing that works to move them 5 miles from the quarry and then lift them into place…

    I guess all Im am saying is that there is soo much out there to learn from, it is up to God for how we discern it…no matter the messenger…

    Dont worry, I have many more questions than answers, I just wrote a little down before to show where some of these things that murray taught might not have been wrong..my quest is for the truth….and I think the bible leads to it….

    I believe the Bible leads a LINEAGE of Christ, from Adam to when Christ was born….not to sound funny, but he comes with a pedigree… lol….one of the most intriguing things to me is Lotts daughters, …..they had to maintain the line so much so that they slept with their father against Gods law , and from there we get Ruth and on to David….thats very powerful …..

    im getting off the subject….there are a few more things that I dont see eye to eye on with murray, some has to deal with revelations…but that is a whole other book….

    we have to get past Pride to further all these studies, we all have gifts from the father….every last one of us…

    any more questions? I would be happy and honored to answer anything….open book with what ever I know

    Mark

    .

    Like

  15. This writer doesn’t read his Bible. Clearly there were men here way before thee Adam created on the 8th day. It’s all right there in black and white, it doesn’t take a theologian to understand it. And Cain was Satans child whose twin brother was Abel from Adam. Only a dumb sunday school preacher would twist these TRUTH’s. Why are people misleading Yahweh’s children like this? I would teach the Bible as it is written. So i wouldn’t be held accountable for those i mislead. And yes Noah took every beast of the field, all races of early man, were on the Ark. The difference is only Adams descendants are living souls. It’s not that hard to comprehend is it? And yes Adam was Caucasian, his name means in Hebrew ruddy, red, to show blood, to blush. Now call it racist all you want to, this is what our creator says. And what he says goes, you don’t question it. And this writer titled this the two Adams teaching debunked!!!!! How did he debunk what is clearly the case in Genesis? Some people can’t stand the TRUTH because there is no TRUTH in them.

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  16. I studied w/ Shepherd’s Chapel from ’07 to ’12. I grew up First Christian & more recently attend 2 local churches. One non-denomination & another Four-Square Gospel Fellowship. The only person on this chat who mentioned “relationship” was ceray7. If everyone is so confused on the eth-ha-Adam & racial creation topic, why not just pray for wisdom & knowledge? For example I learned no rapture from Pastor Murray & learned rapture from radio, tv & local sermons. I prayed for clarification & was told, “hope for rapture & be ready for tribulation”. I learned more Bible concepts from Shepherd’s Chapel than elsewhere. I’ve learned more social & emotional Bible concepts from Joyce Meyers than elsewhere. I heard a local sermon on the importance of worship & praise. My current focus is tithing, worship & prayer. No 1 pastor can teach or know it all, but Jesus Himself ♡!

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  17. I appreciate your search for truth, but I have to ask you one question. How is it so easy for you to see the racism in SC but miss it in Trump’s rhetoric?

    Like

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